专访全球顶尖富豪：好奇心和阅读成就了我们！（附视频&对话稿）
2017年1月27日，比尔·盖茨与沃伦·巴菲特，两位全球知名的传奇富豪在哥大的对话于哥伦比亚大学商学院与哥大学生进行对话，这次对话由著名脱口秀主持查理罗斯牵头，同时有超过30000人通过脸书实时观看。
作为全球最有影响力的CEO，87岁的巴菲特每天仍然坚持5至6小时的阅读。最近，比尔·盖茨与沃伦·巴菲特（哥伦比亚大学商学院1951届毕业生）与哥大学生分享了他们的自我经历和他们对阅读的认知。阅读改变了巴菲特的一生，此外，保持对任何事物的好奇心，也是他与比尔盖茨友谊延绵至今的原因。
https://v.qq.com/txp/iframe/player.html?vid=s0377fazj0d&width=500&height=375&auto=0
巨头间的友谊
沃伦巴菲特和比尔盖茨已经有超过25年的友情了。两位全世界最有钱的亿万富翁虽然专业领域不同，但是他们都很高兴能与对方成为挚友。他们呼吁年轻人要多与比自己更优秀的人来往，盖茨说：“见贤而思齐”，他在巴菲特身上学到了很多的人生的哲理。在每年的伯克希尔哈撒韦年会期间，两位好友都会在会议结束后打桥牌和乒乓球，这个传统已经保持了多年。
关于工作的热情
众所周知，巴菲特在投资方面的卓越表现为他带来了“奥马哈先知”的美誉，当被问及是否想要有机会选择一个新的职业重新再来，巴菲特给出了直接的回答：“不”。巴菲特表示自己从二三十岁至八十六岁都一直很享受自己的职业带来的乐趣，在离开哥大的时候巴菲特留下了赠言：“选一个在你不需要工作的时候也愿意做的事情，把它变成你的工作”。比尔盖茨表示他会花大概15%的时间在微软工作并且只参与研究与开发部分，例如人工智能的开发等等。他坚信在未来的时间里微软将给人类社会带来更多的惊喜和进步。
政治立场
关于政治上的立场，比尔盖茨说他并不完全反对川普。巴菲特在竞选期间是希拉里的支持者，他曾公开发表多次演讲表示拥护希拉里当选。然而，在川普当选后巴菲特成为了美国股市里最大的赢家之一。他在CNN的采访中认为川普描述的4%的经济增长率过高。根据他分析，2016年美国经济最后一个季度增长率为1.6%，那么在现行1%的人口增长率的情况下，美国接下来的GDP增长率能够稳定达到每年2%就已经非常理想了。
关于投资
巴菲特表示他在2016年大量购入了资产，包括收购了价值370亿美金的精密机件公司Precision。他还表示现在在目前市值高企的股票市场里已经很难找到适合的投资对象了。巴菲特还指出自己曾在大选之后净购入了价值120亿美元的股票，但并未透露买入了哪几家公司，具体细节将在今年9月公开。
关于如何看待中美两国
巴菲特和比尔盖茨表示虽然中美两国政治体制不同，但是中国在增大经济产出和提高医疗水平方面的确有非常卓越的成绩，而且中国用严谨的态度对待贸易和清洁能源。如果美国与作为世界第二经济体的中国持续保持良好的关系，那么中美合作将是今后世界上最为重要的话题。比尔盖茨认为多年以来美国所建立的教育体系、来自世界各国的人才资源和勇于承担风险、敢于创新的精神会保证美国继续强大下去。
巴菲特并不担心美国经济会出问题，他担心的是美国在经济发展中可能会犯的错误，例如核武器问题。比尔盖茨同意巴老的观点，并指出除此之外还有生物科技所带来的问题。对于美国对中国可能发起的的贸易战争，两位都表示这并不是一个明智的选择。他们认为贸易使得各方受益。
在访谈中二人同时也对基因工程、教育、医疗、全球气候以及能源问题进行了探讨。
(图片来自Money网站)
关于疫苗接种
川普与一位知名的疫苗怀疑论者的会面引起了社会对反对疫苗的流言会加剧的担忧。比尔盖茨在慈善的卫生保健方面投资巨大，他表示将会强烈地反对阻碍疫苗业发展的行径。巴菲特对比尔盖茨为此付出的努力表示认可和赞同。
关于对国外的援助
另一件比尔盖茨关注的事是川普将会如何维持那些国外援助项目，它们是世界健康卫生方面的主要力量。他提到一个始于布什政府时代且在奥巴马政府得以延续的疟疾和艾滋病援助项目，他表示这些都是他希望川普能够继续关注的。
关于移民
巴菲特并不支持川普的反移民言论，他说到：“这个国家被移民们所庇佑着，他们从各个不同的国家来到这里，并给在这里找到了能让他们发挥潜能的事务。”
关于政治捐赠
比尔盖茨和巴菲特都是位列慈善排行榜的慈善家。他们从2009年开始了“捐赠承诺”计划，鼓励亿万富豪们承诺在去世前捐出自己大部分的财富。而他们不想为之花钱的为数不多的项目就是政治。
巴菲特认为财富和金钱影响政治对国家而言是非常不好的事情。他们承诺自己的财富将不涉及政治，但不得不提的是巴菲特是希拉里克林顿的狂热粉丝。
Charlie Rose: Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are here. Gates is the co-chair of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The philanthropy focuses on education, poverty, and global health. Warren Buffett is Chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. The company is one of the most successful companies of the last five decades. The two have famously been friends for more than 25 years. Together they started the Giving Pledge in 2010, the initiative encourages the world's richest to donate the majority of their wealth to philanthropic causes. Buffet pledged the bulk of his wealth to the Gates Foundation in 2006, and has since given more than $24 billion to charities. I am pleased to have both of them back at this table. Welcome. And I have to say in the interest of full disclosure, we just did something like this at Columbia University with a thousand students. You two do this before. There is something special about the curiosity and the interest of young people wanting to know how do they learn from you. Wanting to know if you were starting over what would you do? Wanting to know about values. You do a lot of this.
Warren Buffett: Well, about the friendship, we met on July 5, 1991, and hit it off immediately. Bill was a little reluctant at first, but he got there.
Charlie Rose: Reluctant to come.
Warren Buffett: Yes, if it wasn't for his mother, we probably wouldn't know each other. And we have had a good time ever since. And we've cooperated on, particularly on the GivingPledge, but other things as well. And I have to say, everything about it has turned out well.
Charlie Rose: He sits on your board.
Warren Buffett: He sits on the Berkshire board, and we havea lot of fun talking about a lot of things. But the big thing that really came out of one of those discussions really was the Giving Pledge. That's worked out so much better than I ever anticipated, Charlie. I mean, I thought if we got 30, 40 people, you know--
Charlie Rose: And how many have you --
Warren Buffett: I think we're at 156 or something like that.And the people -- and now we've gone beyond the borders of the United States, which I didn't feel would originally happen.And people are learning more, our members, about effective philanthropy. They're learning about things that didn't work.They're learning about how people handle, within theirfamilies, wealthy families, and it's just worked out so muchbetter than I would've guessed six years ago or seven years ago.
Charlie Rose: Both of you have made the point that there are a lot -- because of success and technology, there are a lot ofpeople with a lot of money who are much younger.
Bill Gates: Yes, it's a great thing that these companies are doing so well. And as a group, I would say it's a particularlyphilanthropic group. I didn't give huge gifts until I was 45.Some of them in their 30s are already doing amazing things.
Charlie Rose: Why were you -- if the word is reluctant,reluctant to give earlier than that?
Bill Gates: I hadn't taken the time to understand where the huge payoffs were, and I was pretty maniacal about Microsoft. And only in my late 30s, with some encouragement from my wife Melinda, did I start to study it, talk with her about it. We knew we would do it by the time I was 60, but as we were doing that learning we decided we should accelerate it and, you know, we found a lot of ways that we thought we could have high impact.
Charlie Rose: And the principle, sort of, mission call was that all lives are equal.
Bill Gates: That's right. And a lot of that outside the United States has gone to save lives and have kids grow up to be healthy.
Charlie Rose: How did you decide that you would rather give your money to the Gates Foundation than create somefoundation of your own, and go out and find people to run itand do whatever you wanted to do.
Warren Buffett: Well, my first wife, Susie and I actuallystarted a foundation over 50 years ago, and we had talkedabout it since we were in our 20s. And I always thought I'd be red sheeted, didn't think I would be, but -- and I said to her, if I compound money at the rate I hope to compound money, there will be really large sums later on, and you're good at giving it away, I'm good at making it, so I'll make it first and you give it away. And she thought that was sort of half a cop-out and half logical. (LAUGHTER)
Charlie Rose: And probably told you so.
Warren Buffett: Yeah, absolutely. And so we did something, like I say, it was started over 50 years ago, but I really thought that there would be large sums later on, and that she was particularly good at empathizing with people, understanding their needs, putting the personal energy into it, everything. She would be better at giving away money than I would be, and she died in 2004, as you know. So then I had to re-think what I was going to do. And so in 2006, I decided that, essentially, five foundations, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being the largest, and I'm looking for people that had similar goals with philanthropy that what I had. And the idea that every life is of equal value is just fundamental to me. You know, with your luck you can be lucky.
Charlie Rose: And you knew Bill would run it well.
Warren Buffett: Oh, of course. I mean, he was putting -- he had his own money up which is a big deal. But, far more than that, I mean, you had two much younger people, very bright, very hard working. They work much harder at this than most people do in this country in their jobs. And they were on the same track I was on, a proven quantity, I mean, everything about it made sense. And it's continued to make sense ten years later.
Charlie Rose: Bill talked about Melinda's influence. You have said to me about Susie, your late wife, I was a mess until I met Susie.
Warren Buffett: I think that's understating it. (LAUGHTER)She changed my life, there's no question about that.
Charlie Rose: How did she change your life?
Warren Buffett: Well, I was a very lop-sided, not welladjusted person who happened to be very good at one thing,and she put me together. I mean, it wasn't overnight, either, but she just had that little sprinkling can, and finally, she saw a few sprouts come up.
Charlie Rose: Was it a coming together of opposites or?
Warren Buffett: No, no, I wouldn't say that. We had very similar values, we were in sync in a very big way, but she was way more mature than I was. She was 19 when we got married, I was 21. I was about 12 emotionally. And she put me together. And like I say, it took time, but it changed my life. I would not have had roughly anything like the life I have had.
Charlie Rose: And what did Charlie Munger add?
Warren Buffett: Well, Charlie Munger, my partner of 57 or 58 years, and he's extremely wise. He's a wonderful friend.We've been partners that time, and he's strong minded, I'm strong minded, we disagree sometimes, we have never hadan argument in that whole time, and we never will.
Charlie Rose: Never had an argument?
Warren Buffett: Never had an argument. I won't lie. That's absolutely true.
Charlie Rose: But you must disagree on things.
Warren Buffett: Absolutely, we disagree.
Charlie Rose: So if you disagree, how do you decide to--
Warren Buffett: Well, what he says at the end is -- when we disagree, he says, well, Warren, you'll end up agreeing with me because you're smart and I'm right. (LAUGHTER) You know, where do I attack that particular problem?
Charlie Rose: I'm right, you're smart, you'll figure out I'm right.
Warren Buffett: Often he's right. I have to say that. Listen, I respect his opinion enormously whenever he gives it to me. I respect Bill's opinion. I mean, but it's more fun doing thing with partners. I mean, the most fun is, obviously, a marriage partner. And that's the most important relationship, but having a business partner, if I had done everything I had done -- it wouldn't have worked out this way, but let's say I got double the results, it's been more fun doing it with Charlie.
Charlie Rose: Who says no to Bill Gates?
Bill Gates: Well, Melinda Gates. (LAUGHTER)
Warren Buffett: I've seen it happen. (LAUGHTER)
Bill Gates: It's great when somebody knows, you know, when you might move too fast or be over optimistic. Or, you know, if a team comes in and I'm pointing out things we haven't done and, you know, maybe they're not as motivated afterwards. So, you know, they get me to correct that. I've matured a lot and I give Melinda immense credit. She still has work to do, but I think I'm getting there. And complementary strengths where you share the same goal is a great thing. I had that with Paul Allen in the early days of Microsoft. I had that with Steve Ballmer as Microsoft got going. Now both in my family life and the foundation, it's Melinda.
Charlie Rose: How much time do you spend at Microsoft?
Bill Gates: I'm there about 15 percent of the time. And I get to work just on the R&D part, brainstorming withpeople, thinking, OK, how are we going to take this artificialintelligence and make it understand, help you use your time better. It's a very exciting time in software. There's five companies that are, you know, in a really strong position.Microsoft is leading in some really cool stuff so --
Charlie Rose: Like? (LAUGHTER)
Bill Gates: Oh, the way that a business takes information about customers, about communication with customers, looking at data, that mission of really using data in A.I. and getting the productivity of all those workers up because they see more information, Microsoft is the leader on that. And it's a wonderful niche. You know, it's a multi-hundred billion-dollar niche that they're strong in. And they will be innovating along that line more in the next two years than ever in our history.
Charlie Rose: You have a passion for artificial intelligence, you do.
Bill Gates: Yes, it's the ultimate dream when you startworking on software is the kind of deep understanding and intelligence that humans have. So it's been the holy grail of when can the computer learn to play games, when can the computer learn to read, when can it understand speech. And things like speech and vision have made such progress in recent years. I mean, you've been tracking this and exposing your viewers to some of it, because I can't overstate that even for people in the field, it's a pretty magical time.
Charlie Rose: And its potential is to do what? Change everything?
Bill Gates: Well, in the first instance, to be the best assistant ever, to look at all your information and help you know in the few minutes between meetings what you should look at, or when you're trying to, you know, plan a trip, organize things, the things to be a much, much, much, much better assistant than it is today. And then, eventually, certain mechanical tasks like warehouse work or driving, that it would take that over. But for intellectual work, it will just magnify the creativity and make your time more valuable.
Charlie Rose: Are you interested in technology?
Warren Buffett: I don't have enough -- I don't think I have a natural -- bent that way to start with and I would be so far behind. I never would catch up with people that have beenworking on it. It would not be a game I would be winning.
Charlie Rose: Is a principle criteria for you understanding the business?
Warren Buffett: Yes, I have to understand the business. And there's lots of businesses I don't understand, some of themmay be almost un-understandable, and others are just outside my sphere of confidence.
Charlie Rose: But you do have people now that do have thatkind of expertise that you have brought in.
Warren Buffett: I have two people who themselves have different circles of competence, but they aren't chosen because they have a different circle, there is a lot of overlap, there's overlap between them, and the important thing is not how -- it's nice to have a huge circle of competence, it's much more important to know where the limits are of it. You can do very well if you only understand five percent of the businesses in the country. (LAUGHTER)
Charlie Rose: And find plenty of opportunities.
Warren Buffett: And you know which five, you've got the five percent are in that circle.
Charlie Rose: I mean, you've made a huge purchase in 2016.Precision was bought in 2016, $37 billion.
Warren Buffett: Including debt, $33 or 4 billion cash, and assumption of about $4 billion in debt.
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